Originally by: n sx

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People can make their own minds up then and there if they are even interested. Until then, you've lost 6 capitals we've lost 1.

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Originally by: shanda captison

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Nice to see your back foo what was with visiting the north the other day? Was the south getting too much for you?!

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Originally by: Milkminer

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Originally by: Darknesss

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Edited by: Darknesss on 29/12/2006 01:35:16
IAC > ISS without the mercs. Theyre putting up a fight, MC are tipping their hats. From what i saw at the start everyone was saying omg iac gonna get owned. They have shocked me, and im loving every minute of it, go IAC!

ISS, when ur money for mercs runs dry, or they get bored of this contract you have got them on, they will get back the outpost, and nothing will stop them taking more. If it does come to ISS vs IAC, my money is 100% on IAC.

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I agree 100% with this post.

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Originally by: Silvestri

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Is ISS's POS in JBY in reinforced?? When and if we really add costs of pos's and stuff....don't forget to add all the pos's in f4 and the one in jby your gonna lose.
I think an alliance like ISS belongs up north....it's just to shooty shooty down here....

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Originally by: Maria Ravenwind

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Why haven't we recieved an answer from Butters about the isk spent of mercs?

Huh???

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Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican

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ISS stated in like two different threads that they are no longer neutral, they only serve their shareholders (as it should be) and they are in no way influenced by the political atmosphere. I remember being corrected by ISS that they are still neutral until later others stated otherwise to the contradiction.

Both sides can only spin a story so far before someone or others contradict something.

I'm sorta confused in this.

Hell in one post Butter Dog states that they own nothing and see what the "share-holders" do when you seriously threaten their outposts.

Well ok Butter. Isn't it ISS'es duty to protect said assets? I mean if I was a shareholder I would be dishing alittle money out to help said defense cause.

To simply say that ISS doesnt care (which I sorta get that from that post) would shake my belief as a shareholder in ISS competence in the Business handling of my paid for assets.

Everyone knows (or knew) that investments into ISS projects were a sure bet money maker. Its also known that ISS makes excellent money on said projects as well. Now if it comes down to me pitching money in every week or so in defending my paid for assets, or even spending a bil here or there for mercs, I would start questioning my belief in my future projects. Hell I may even look into selling my shares and possibly cut my loses before they do become losses. Isn't it ISS'es job to protect the assets by any means necessary. Can I get a link to the new ISS Chater so I can re-educate myself?

But this war is still early, and I honestly dont know what a single share in ISS outpost in Catch fetches before and after the war. But I garentee there is probably a couple of shareholders ****ed right now on how things are looking. Then again I been wrong before...

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Originally by: n sx

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Edited by: n sx on 29/12/2006 14:00:47

Originally by: Butter Dog

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1) ISS don't even have a POS in JBY

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1 Large Minmatar Tower, owned by The Flying Daggers <ISS>

I suppose that's the POS you forgot about when you sieged every IAC POS in system, with your dreadfleet. Oh .... and you weren't taking that station right?

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Originally by: Khermine Baddenash

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The ISS is mentally, logistically and technician incapable to mount an offensive war succesful

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Originally by: DHB FooFighter

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We faced you head on and wiped the floor with you. we are 3-0 in said engagements and it only took us an hour to get ready whereas you had 6 hours and all you could muster was 22 ships and 3 battleships

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Originally by: Sameth

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Really? worth the money? Considering it was LV who actually did all the work and provided most of the capital fleet which actually took out the POS's?

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Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican

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As you now blantently point in another direction to my comments and opinion to why things are they way they are. Like the expert politician you are... I was stating on the fact that if IAC takes F4 back, now said shareholders have to look back on the fact we are back to day one, and now ISS outposts are under immediate threat instead of "maybe." Not only that but ISK wasted in hiring mercs and having to do it again.

Not only this, ISS, or the ISS lacky named "Press Officer" a one man corp alt I my add, stated that the Mercs were hired by "private finances." ISS even stated that ISS didnt hire the mercs. Now ISS did hire them? More spinning or does it even matter?

Just remember while you flaunt the fact that you have F4, and then suddenly its ripped from you, and again "shareholder" assets are threatened again. Confidence from said "shareholders" will be shakey. Mark my words.

Maybe when the time comes, ISS, mercs and bedfellows will comeback and rip f4 away again, maybe then they will finish the job and take all our outposts away, and not stop like last time when AAA shows up and claims "Doesnt matter, f4 was all we wanted."

But I think that spin was used before...lets see, history states that MCFIX/Storm Armada came down, sieges G-7, fails and spins with the "Outposts were bonus we were only suppose hurt IAC." Seems like you both hire the same PR speech writers

I think ISS contracted the Mercs the first time. <---but this leads to tinfoil hats with no backing.

Lets see how the next couple weeks play out, and if we succeed in taking f4 back and start looking towards ZXIC, lets see what truely happens.

---

Originally by: Cicilus Hadrican

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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So its pointless getting into a discussion about some imaginary future, which by the way is very unlikely.

---

Noted. ISS believes we cant take F4 back. Lets see if true then

<man, they need to get internet in my room, missing the fights, damn you Iraq! Damn you to hell!>

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Originally by: Gutsani

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Hiring Mercs is not in ISS's bussiness model .. you need glasses. Let me quote it:

Build Phase
Security measures include:
...
- Large professional mercinary force employed for launch and defence of CONSTRUCTION PLATFORM.
...

Docking policy
...
> Accepting Mercenary contracts against the ISS
...

now go claim hiring a mercenary force to take over an outpost is good for your reputation and mentioned in your charter and an act of defence (if it was, it had to be VOTED and PAYED by your shareholders, read your charter baby, oh yeah!) and whatever more idioticry you can come up with.

I told you yesterday, just go back to your cave ...

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Originally by: maGz

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We defend IAC on the forums, but don't mistake us for those drunk nubtards

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Originally by: DHB FooFighter

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Oh, no, you're right - we lost 11 battleships in a 24 hour period, we give in. Please, take our stations

---

that was only the numbers for the fight were we jumped into your camp.

I lost count for the total number of kills on the day but the number was in the 4 billion damage range.

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Originally by: Abn Matar

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: GO MaZ

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: DHB FooFighter

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Im in your systems locking down your stations.

What ya gonna do about it.

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lol

One crow is a system lockdown?

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Ask your fellow ISS pilots, who wouldnt undock

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I logged in another character just now in F4 and undocked... into clear empty space.

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So, you logged in a n00b char in a shuttle just to be sure you didnt loose your ship then?

Try keeping your space clean and your systems safe, well see in the end what will happen doesnt really matter what we or you say now. Though its a funny post...

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Originally by: DHB FooFighter

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BD, i am very much so looking forward to shoving each and every one of your words down your throat when the time comes.

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Originally by: Mynas Atoch

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Originally by: Sergio Ling

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I find it remarkable that BD has to respond to each and every ISS post. Is he an official represntative at all? Or is he really just an opinionated footsoldier providing the forum forces qith quoteable material?

---

He is an opinionated FC who single handedly has done more damage to ISS's reputation with the EVE community with his posts here, than every other lame act performed in, around and by, ISS since its inception. And as an ex-colleague of his and a shareholder in ISS I'm getting f'ing sick to the back teeth of seeing his posts.

And I am about to get podded by Seleene for breaking our forum ban.

F.it

My7n

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Originally by: Sergio Ling

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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but I'm professional enough to keep my mouth shut about what I know.

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i can't imagine that's true

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Originally by: Calisto Cody

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i used to like ISS, BD changed that ^^

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Originally by: maGz

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Edited by: maGz on 29/12/2006 19:39:37

Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: Calisto Cody

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i used to like ISS, BD changed that ^^

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You're an alt, no-one cares.

---

At least make sure who people are before calling them alts.

EDIT: And at that MC spat. Way to go Butters

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Originally by: Seleene

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Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Of course there are quite a few things I could mention about MC, which won't do wonders for their reputation, but I'm professional enough to keep my mouth shut about what I know.

---

There has been nothing even semi-professional about your conduct on these forums. If you were professional enough to keep your mouth shut, you would keep your mouth shut and let your leaders do the talking. As for what you'd like to mention about MC, I strongly suggest you stick to smacking IAC and leave us out of this.

Quote:

---

Recommend you do the same. Lets just say my personal opinion of MC isnt what it once was, and leave it at that.

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If there was something about our performance on this contract that did not meet your standards... we do not care. You didn't sign our paycheck. We came, we did the job we were paid to do, and then some. The man who signed our paycheck has no complaints. Now we are leaving.

Let that be the end of it.

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Originally by: Sergio Ling

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We had it in Suffolk, and now BD, you bring Foot and Mouth disease to the forums

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Originally by: Gariuys

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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because for me its an extention of the gameplay.

---

Which is the exact reason you should either put a sock in it, or think a bit better on what your posts are doing for ISS reputation, your own rep ( doubt that could get any worse though ) and the best interest of me and everybody else that has money riding on you guys well making money... having it thrown away cause you can't stop running your mouth isn't at all in the best interest of the shareholders!

---

Originally by: N Solarz

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ISS just gained a little respect back now that u are leaving

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Originally by: Sadist

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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MC on the other hand... burn

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Wait a second. Who are you again?

---

Originally by: Sergio Ling

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Somebody feels the need to pirate some more.

On a side note, I tihnk people are more likely to believe Seleene and the McMonkeys over you Mr Butternuts

---

Originally by: Nez Perces

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Edited by: Nez Perces on 29/12/2006 23:16:49

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Someone who knows enough about MC to give them a good forum slapping. Lets just say some interesting insight into a few previous 'contracts' and some details on the most recent one they would rather are not public knowledge.

Maybe next time they will think more carefully before their members send me downright rude evemails demanding I do what they say.

---

lmao.. you are going to do battle with Seleene on the forums??

GL with that, she will swallow you like a glass of water, and then you will get buried alive.

There are very few people in EVE that can mount a direct assault on MC's repuatation... and you are not one of them.

What an interesting thread this turned into.

---

Originally by: War Bear

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We help make F4R happen and we get slapped in the face. Our targets, the guys who have lost fracking multi-billions between both contracts have more respect for us than this guy. EVE will never cease to amaze me.

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Originally by: Ikvar

---

Ok Butter Dog, you've backed us into a corner and we'll admit our terrible secret about our contracts:

It's unbreakable MC SOP that every 3 days during a contract, all MC Dreads, Carriers and Motherships must jump back to Y-C for a 5 hour compulsory mining op, whether we need it or not. I hope the EVE community will be able to forgive us for this and yes, we are seeking profession help on this matter.

Addiction is an ugly thing people


P.S. I have some really juicy dirt on Butter Dog that will shake the EVE community and I'll be POSTING IT IN A FEW DAYS OK.

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Originally by: Calisto Cody

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butter quit while you are lagging behind, your aneu Jr/ alt i have intel act is really gettin on peoples nerves you are a stones throw from becoming the next big joke of eve who no one will respect...ofc you wont listen to me, juest remember this later on

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Originally by: Traxio Nacho

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I would like to know how many IAC see what you have been posting about them as "banter" I don't think they will agree with you.

From what i've actually brought myself to read on the forums over the last week has been outright insulting let alone what you wrote in local, think you actually became the first ally i've had to block and i've been in a local with fatballs

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Originally by: Seleene

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Edited by: Seleene on 30/12/2006 00:57:47

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Please find a single 'insulting' post I've made about IAC. All my posts have been issue-based, not personal in nature.

---

It's not even the content or the tone, Butter - it's the frequency and the apparent need to be ISS's mouth piece when they have perfectly capable people. You constantly claim to be just a 'soldier' yet you act like more than that.

Then again, as you said in F4R local tonight...

[20:20:51] Butter Dog > ISS would **** themselves, I have access to characters with outpost sov config rights in KDF, ZX, C3, F4, plus the ISSO wallet and ISSN wallet.... but i'm not nasty enough to do 'the deed'.

Nice to know you have contingency plans, m8!

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Originally by: Seleene

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OFC I know why they turned up! I had Evil Thug and Omeega on my TS server and spoke to them directly. As for your role in it, hell yes, I think that if you had followed the lead of 95% of the rest of your alliance that there would be a lot less animosity between IAC and ISS.

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Originally by: Seleene

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Why wait? You have completely ignored requests and orders from your ISS leadership to shut up, so why be silent now? Our failings? Butter, over the last 18 days, my alliance has been the fulcrum of every action that led to the ISS flag being planted in F4R. We don't need a scapegoat. We accomplished exactly what we were paid to do. No more & no less.

---

Originally by: Traxio Nacho

---



Quote:

---

[ 2006.12.29 20:22:33 ] DHB FooFighter > [20:20:51] Butter Dog > ISS would **** themselves, I have access to characters with outpost sov config rights in KDF, ZX, C3, F4, plus the ISSO wallet and ISSN wallet.... but i'm not nasty enough to do 'the deed'

---

Either DHB Foofighter made this up himself and posted it in the channel I am in with him or you are blantly lying?

Mr Foo please could you confirm if you or someone else made this up or Butter Dog wrote this in a channel himself and you then posted it in the channel?

PS: maGz pretty sure Press Officer is BD (I could be wrong)

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Originally by: Nez Perces

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Originally by: Crozon

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Actually, if you re-read the above, you'll find that what BD said was that Count didn't care what BD said as he didn't represent ISS.

---

rubbish.. Count T didn't get to where he is by not knowing a basic fact about forums..... what alliance members say on the forums, reflects on the alliance itself..... every alliance leader has to at some point reel in the forum whoring if it gets out of hand.

Either Count T is guilty of gross negligence in respect to BD's forum techniques.. or he tacitly approves of what he has to say.

The whole, I speak for myself and not my alliance, when speaking of alliance affairs, is the biggest lie ever told.

Everything you say on the forums can and will be used against you, your corporation, your alliance and your unborn children.

How else do you explain the proliferation of alts...

---

Originally by: Seleene

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Originally by: Butter Dog

---

I'm sitting in Empire and have been all evening.

---

Empire, eh?

2006.12.29 21:34

Victim: Butter Dog
Alliance: Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
Corp: ISS Navy Task Force
Destroyed: Capsule
System: ZXIC-7
Security: 0.0

Involved parties:

Name: Ice Breaker (laid the final blow)
Security: 5.0
Alliance: Mercenary Coalition
Corp: Contraband Inc.
Ship: Crusader
Weapon: Dual Light Beam Laser II


As for the comment I quoted, that was passed on to me by about five different people. Grapevine 4TL. Oh well. Sue me for slander.

---

Originally by: Seleene

---

100 AAA show up less than two hours before we were planning a major capital ship op and log off en masse in JBY = you're damn right I refused! Being scared is one thing. Being STUPID is quite another.

---

Originally by: Seleene

---

Actually, it IS an ISK thing. XXX amount to take F4R from IAC and known allies is one thing. XXX amount to take on the former with AAA, Goons and RA ready to jump a few dozen cap ships in on ya is something else!

I have no political stake in this. We had / have no obligation to this situation outside of what we are paid to do. Dealing with AAA was not part of the original deal and any deal to do so would require a substantial re-negotiation.

We're Mercs, Butter. Period.

---

Originally by: Seleene

---

Then it seems the Count and I are due for a chat. Because either he is lying to me or you are.

---

Originally by: Seleene

---

Yes, there were plans to take all three. However, those same plans also called for a break over the holidays right after F4R fell. That break would have allowed ISS and IAC to possibly talk a bit or just gear up for more slaughter. Either way, I can't remember the last time everything went according to plan.

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Originally by: Sergio Ling

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Originally by: Butter Dog

---

lots of babble about Seleene and not fighting when outnumbered

---

I've fought Seleene and Co, fought with them, and lunched with a few of em. Understand this. MC bring power and doom to a fight, through experience and organisation, not so much from numbers. Look to goon for that.

And Tactics. Because you choose not to fight someone doesn't make the decision BAD. It just means that tactically, you wouldnt be happy to enter into a fight where you don't have a good advantage, and that's ok.

---

Originally by: Sergio Ling

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Edited by: Sergio Ling on 30/12/2006 02:22:02

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Let me tell you this: I was moist at the crotch to fight AAA. I offered ISS ISK upfront so I could take a dread into the fight and really have it out with them. It would have been fantastic.

---

Somehow i think that i'd trust Seleene's judgement over yours when deciding where to put a Dradnought

---

Originally by: spiralJunkie

---

I'm pretty sure I said, about a week into that war, on IRC (that's #eve-onlione on irc.coldfront.net folks) that Eve Radio (who I was with at the time) paid for the contract.

Spin that Butterdog!

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Originally by: Grimster

---

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Spin that, Seleene.

Oh, and my source of this data? Seleene himself, in a private conversation to someone who entrusted me with the info (sorry I let it slip, nothing personal)

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Never sure whether to laugh or feel sorry for you BD.

Really.

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Originally by: Demitri Klashnikov

---

Sorry to dissopoint you BD. Saw the rather healthy pay check in the corp wallet.

in fact it wasn't only a paid contract, but at the time the biggest contract in ISK value we have ever recieved.

I understand the client was more than happy with our work.

2/10 must try harder

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Originally by: War Bear

---

Huh ... all this build up and it turns out to be another "MC has fake contracts" thread. I kinda feel like I did after watching the third Matrix. The buildup was there, then it just sorta fizzled.

3\10 would not read again.

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Originally by: Seleene

---

LOL!!! You just made yourself look like a complete military idiot with this statement.

Holy hell! Dude, WE? Who is WE?? You mean the 2-4 ISS Dreads alongside the 20 - 25 MC/FIX/UK/Tyrell dreads? Wait a minute... Are you actually suggesting that when we dropped our cap fleet into siege mode that 30-40 AAA Dreads would not have dropped in right on top of us?

Dude, I've seen more military sense and clarity in a painting by Picasso.

---

Originally by: Seleene

---

Here is a point - without MC, the battleground right now would be Tycho and Marginis.

Dude, after all the sleepless nights my people put into this job, for you to have the balls to say it was a cakewalk or easy... you're living on another plane of reality, man. We gave our all on this job and all you can do is whine because some people talked mean to you?

---

Originally by: Seleene

---

Soooo... I gave ten billion ISK to myself?

Dude, I've been very clear - the target was no IAC; it was Tyrrax. Our mandate for Prohibition I was, "Make him lose some sleep." That is it. It was a joke to our client (one person, BTW).

Now, I understand that most people in EVE live in a world about political goals and objectives, etc... Well, there are also a lot of very rich and bored people out there who sometimes just wanna blow some cash and watch the fireworks. It doesn't have to make sense but not every merc contract is going to. People with money are crazy.

So, you're saying that I told someone in a private convo that there was no client for that job? Interesting. Show me.

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Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr

---

Yeah, we get paid to make these kind of calls because we know what we're doing. I've seen you lead ISSN fleets BD and while you're a nice guy and great for certain gangs, you do not have the experience that a lot of the people around Seleene have and that told him which things to take into account. :)

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Originally by: Count TaSessine

---

I haven't shared sensitive information with Butter Dog since about 6 months ago when we first kicked him out of ISS. If he has tried to represent my views in his various dealings with people in Eve, he has done so maliciously.

He has now been kicked out again, and this time he won't be coming back. Despite a clear agreement not to post on Eve-O, he was unable to control himself. To be honest, I don't know what drives BD to do things this way.

---

Originally by: Sergio Ling

---

No, no, MC and now ISS, have pwnd you.

Your revelation was poor, unoriginal, and had no backup.

You contradict yourself.

Your previous employers hate you.

I tihnk you're funny, like a clown corpse.

Just...go away.

(I don't actually want you to go away, I want you to keep posting silliness on here cos it makes me chuckle, and my dog just dieded, so I needs the chucklez)

---

Originally by: Sergio Ling

---

FACT - You said Count told you posting was fine. HE has called BS on that
FACT - You said MC were scared of AAA and havent yet backed that up
FACT - You said you were leaving ISS and yet it comes to light that maybe you were kicked
FACT - You said you knew when to keep your mouth shut due to professionalism, and you obviously can't.

And so on and so forth

---

Originally by: Sergio Ling

---

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Lets deal with these points one at a time.

* Count told me he liked me posting on Eve-O because he said it 'gave ISS a voice' and everyone knew I didnt officially represent the alliance. As I wasnt warned, kicked etc for making the posts, its pretty easy to draw your own conclusions there.

---

Count said in his post a page or so back, that he told you not to post

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

* The AAA issue has been crystal clear from the start - MC refused to engage them for any price, they have even admitted they refused to engage them so what part of this is troubling you exactly?

---

Where does Seleene say this?

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

* I removed my roles and made a forum post on the ISS internal forum stating that I was leaving, 12 hours BEFORE Count said he was kicking me. Why he said this I have no idea. Obviously I knew that when I started a forum tussle with MC, he would not want me under the ISS flag so I announced my departure before doing so.

---

CT says he's kicking you, you're kicked. I take his word over yours

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

* The last point can't be construed as a fact, its simply your opinion.

---

Well, you said somewhere around page 6 that you're professional enough to keep your mouth shut, yet all you've done is post post post

---

Originally by: Lorth

---

I'm just wondering if BD is going to keep accusing Count indirectly of being a liar, or if your willing to appoligise?

You've already been shown to be a liar your self on a couple occasions in this thread, Butter Dog, so your on very shaky ground to be doing so to others, even if your subtle about it.

---

Originally by: Admiral Feelgood

---

I don't know if Count T would deny this, but as a point of curiosity could you load the screenshot up anyway? I'm not related to what's going on but it would add a lot of credibility to what you're saying if you provided you know, actual evidence of that sort.

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Originally by: Sergio Ling

---

the problem at this stage is that allegations have been made, and proof has been offered. But in the age of html, photoshop and internets, what proof can be offered that cant be called into question?

---

Originally by: Algey

---

Butter, just because you announced in that forum that you were pulling your roles doesn't mean you were not being kicked. It just means you pulled your roles before I could get to you .

As for the rest of your posts, you have not got access to the management group, ISSN Command, or the War room.

---

Originally by: Lorth

---

Now given that most of your important points have been dimissed, by both sides close to you as rubish, do you have any comment, proof, or otherwise any other reason for the general public to believe what your saying verses the word of everyone else?

---

Originally by: Fubear

---

People seem to be forgetting that its Mercenary Coalition not Suicide Squad.

Their goal is to make money, and how much money would they make if they lost their entire capital fleet to an AAA ambush? Fulfilling contracts while minimising their losses is what they have to do to survive.

I cannot blame them for bowing out when a superior opponent appears, fighting a losing war is never good for the profit margin.

---

Originally by: Lorth

---

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Please point me to a single one of my key points which have been dismissed... All I see are MC clamming up about the important issues and going on 'personal attack mode'.

I have provided proof, I have stated my source,

---

Well for one, you havn't provided proof dispite being asked to do so several times. And the source you sited came on the forums to publically state that no such conversation ever took place.

Which is kinnda what I was getting at in my previous post. Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. Especially when no evidence is offered, and everyother person attached to events in question flatty dissagrees with you.

---

Originally by: KIAEddZ

---

Most entertaining thread for ages.

But the point still stands Butter Dog.

You have made some large claims, and Rev Incs post doesnt directly back yours up at all, despite what your saying.

Its a simple position your in.

Proof or stfu.

Screenshots, high quality high resolution ones, hosted for the community to see, or its time for you to leave this thread alone and shhhhhh. Your claims are huge, and frankly, no one belives them right now. Saying it doesnt make it true.

---

Originally by: Lorth

---

We also fought, goons, who we fully expected to be a blobtastic challanging good time, dispite there lack of skill points. To bad they played on thier VCBee alts the whole time.

The last IAC contract wasn't so much of a cakewalk. Least with all the help they managed to recruite over the the war.

Imp/Surpm - Despite the smack thrown at them, they are not two groups known as easy carebear ganks.

RA/Goon's - Again not a group known as easy ganks allaround.

---

Originally by: Lorth

---

I didn't say they were a challenge, I said we expected them to be because of thier vastly superiour numbers.....

---

Originally by: KIAEddZ

---

[

Butter you sa you have private messages from Count.... detailing his dissapointment in MC etc.

So you should be able to screenshot that sort of stuff... your claims would be far more believable if you offered real evidence where you could.

---

Originally by: Layla Currie

---

And hahaha at that screenshot bdog posted. That's awesome tbh. But don't worry butter the calls of photoshop are minutes away!

---

Originally by: Algey

---

Originally by: Torshin

---

I made a thread maybe 3 days after the IAC ISS conflict started stating that there was internal strife within ISS and that their offensive decisions would turn out ot be tactically wrong. Butter dog instantly stated that there is no internal problems and that I was an IAC alt and wanted sources. I then posted many comments from the ISS forums and now BD won't even post a chat to save his name. If the ISS FC leaving isn't internal problems I don't know what is. But to be honest he always was better at ganking miners in low sec then he was as a FC. Reading 17 pages of this thread and seeing BD reply the same way ever time is pathetic. He says haha seleene you are lying now every one knows it, i have proof but im not going to reveal my sources.
Butter dog shut up and go back and join your pathetic little pvp corp.

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BD is not THE ISS FC. Really, what is this.

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Originally by: GO MaZ

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Nice madonna album

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Originally by: Lorth

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[

Well lets also point out that all the screen shot effectivly does, is prove that we didn't engage AAA, which we have admited (8 pages ago), and stated reasons (though purposly vague) as to why not.

So we're left with Count being dissapointed in that desistion, and still nothing about the faked contract.

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Originally by: Lorth

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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lol

you're not getting out of this that easily.

You refused to engage AAA in that one fight - fine, maybe I can live with that. You then refused point blank to engage in any further fights with AAA even remotely in the picture, because you fear them, and you fear losing.

You then pack up and leave, claming glorious victory (ie a cakewalk in F4 in which you played a supporting role along with other allied forces), and walk away from the other two contract objectives.

You FAILED.

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Wanna see me get out of this easily?

Originally by: Count TaSessine

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AAA stopped that dead in the water. We asked all our allies to stand down from that moment on because ISS have NO desire to even try to fight a top alliance like AAA.

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And in the style of this thread, I'll declare myself the winner, since I can't miss out on a trend.

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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Butter has been kicked, he quit b4 the kicking, but Count has made a public acknowledgement that Butters actions are not welcome in ISS.

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Originally by: Nez Perces

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And btw Butter Dog.. I wouldn't shed any tears for Count T, he has hung you out to dry in the most visible way possible... he effectively called you a liar and a trouble maker on the forums.. if what you are saying is true.. he stabbed you in the back.. and put you up for public lynching.

Don't waste your tears on him, I gurantee you his wasting none on you.

BD you are alone... ISS have disowned you.. there is no going back now.

You started this and you must finish it.. or it will finish you.

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Originally by: Seleene

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Fine, here is the screenshot.

If you are wondering what I was reffing to with the 'I wont post on EVE-O about it' comment, its the fact that MC got scared. That was before they got on my bad side.


http://dl.eve-files.com/media/players/pm_screen_20061230192614.jpg

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Oh ho ho!!! Now THIS has my attention. I will certianly look forward to seeing a reply to this.

As for the rest... Butter, I'm not afraid to admit that Count's opinion of military matters means very little to me. Let me break it down:

I will not jump two dozen capital ships into a system with 80+ confirmed hostiles logged off. In addition to that, I will not force an attack against an enemy with a possibly greater number of capital ships within jump range. Even if I did, I would most certianly not lock my dreads down into siege mode for ten minutes.

Furthermore, when the LEADERS of the enemy force come onto my TS and tell me specifically, "We are here to kill the titan and capital ships.", you know what you do not do? You don't go in half-assed!

The list of variables goes on and on, but the fact is this - people smarter than you about things military made the right call to put the brakes on. Just because you wanted to Lerooooy on in does not make you brave and everyone else cowards.

As for going forward against AAA and "no amount of money"? Dude, did you see ISS offering to reimburse MC losing several dreads in addition to paying us to move against a IAC / AAA conglomerate? No, you didn't, because no such offer was made. I was very clear on the fact that if ISS wanted us to go further with this with AAA being involved that the costs involved would go up accordingly. That was as far as it got and if you choose to see us refusing a measly 10 billion to continue forward against such a force as "failure", then why don't you start your own mercenary / PvP alliance and show us all how it's done, eh?

Now, I'm going to sit back and wait for Count's next post. Regardless of everything else, that is an interesting screenshot.

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Originally by: Lorth

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Its likewise very easy to quit before doing something you know will get you kicked in order the claim some sort of moral high ground is it not?

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Originally by: Nez Perces

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He wants to discredit you.. the implication of Count T's post is that you photoshopped that screenshot... and that he does not talk to you about sensitive issues.

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Originally by: petergriffen

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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Butter has been kicked, he quit b4 the kicking, but Count has made a public acknowledgement that Butters actions are not welcome in ISS.

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Are you being deliberately clueless here?

Just doesnt even make sense... 'he quit before he kicked'... yes its very easy to watch someone walk out then say 'I was gonna kick u anyway!'

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Butter Dog, you started this whole storm over ISS, MC and everyone else involved with the intention that you were going to be removed from ISS Navy. You even said so your self. By acknowledging that fact, and announcing your resignation from ISS before you could be removed, you didn't hold anything back in your little 'smear campaign.'

Unfortunately, I don't think you considered how much your personal reputation would suffer from this. I don't know you and couldn't care less what you say or do, but you've just lost a very big PR war. Whether or not you were 'kicked' or 'left on your own' is moot at this point, because the general consensus from most anyone who has been through this thread is that you've been kicked for being detrimental to ISS interests, and for just being a jackass in general.

Your little screenshot says whatever whoever is reading it wants it to say. Is Count disappointed that Seleene and Co. didn't want to risk their dreads, as well as ISS, FIX, and everyone elses dreads, against a far superior capital force? Even if MC only had 5 or 6 dreads on the op, how many billion ISK does it take to cover those potential losses and still profit on top of that? How much more would it cost for the other Merc outfits there? To be honest, I don't think ISS has that kind of money burning a hole in their pockets.

As was stated earlier, clients pay for our guns, not our friendship.

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Originally by: petergriffen

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Fair enough, however why bother posting ridiculous claims that you can neither back up nor prove about 'fake contracts' and unmet obligations?

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Originally by: Seleene

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do you honestly believe that F4R would be flying the ISS flag today without MC being involved?

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Originally by: petergriffen

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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If anyone claimed the screenshot is fake, I will give a neutral party my login and password on the ISS forum so they can check my private messages.

Can't say fairer than that. Maybe Nez could do it? Thats IF someone claims its fake.

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Now you're calling one of the few people who have been arguing for your cause a 'neutral party?'

What exactly is your agenda, Butter Dog? Or are you just playing it by ear, much the same way as you FC? I would imagine that most people who want to start a smear campaign have a plan of some sort...

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Originally by: Seleene

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Originally by: Nez Perces

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Originally by: petergriffen

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Basically what it comes down to is a crying little baby, stomping his feet and screaming because he thinks something is due to him.

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No actually atm thats what you are doing...

The screenshot is there for all to see... k..... you can't like wish it away.

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Nez, no one in MC is trying to wash that away. In fact, it's got us all eagerly watching this thread again. Obviously, someone has some explaining to do.

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Originally by: petergriffen

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: petergriffen

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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If anyone claimed the screenshot is fake, I will give a neutral party my login and password on the ISS forum so they can check my private messages.

Can't say fairer than that. Maybe Nez could do it? Thats IF someone claims its fake.

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Now you're calling one of the few people who have been arguing for your cause a 'neutral party?'

What exactly is your agenda, Butter Dog? Or are you just playing it by ear, much the same way as you FC? I would imagine that most people who want to start a smear campaign have a plan of some sort...

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fine, we can both agree on someone, and THEY can have my login details - its not like I need them anymore

Peter, I have to say you are coming across as being UTTERLY clueless with regard to why I am posting here. Read the thread and cut the drivel.

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You haven't POSTED anything with ANY merit except for a screenshot of a message that Count sent to you in a private forum. If you think you're posting to 'expose MC for being corrupt' or whatever, you lost that war on Page 1.

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Originally by: petergriffen

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I do enjoy public ridicule, that's why I'm reading a thread with the public ridiculing you.

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Originally by: petergriffen

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You're not the first person to call MC's reputation into question, nor will you be the last.

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Originally by: Ice Ghost

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Butter Dog acts like someone who is really trying to sink ISS

/tin foil hat off

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Originally by: Verone

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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If anyone claimed the screenshot is fake, I will give a neutral party my login and password on the ISS forum so they can check my private messages.

Can't say fairer than that. Maybe Nez could do it? Thats IF someone claims its fake.

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To settle the argument, I claim it's fake.

People know my word in Eve, if the screen is genuine, I'll screenshot it and host it myself with proof it came from my computer desktop.

I class my corp completely neutral in this argument, because frankly I don't care if you guys have beef with eachother.

You can send me your details Eve-Mail if you're up to it.

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Originally by: FowlPlayChiken

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aye, i read it. he said sel was a mercenary captain, ala machiavelli. take count T's message to Butters in context, and tbh its not all untrue. Sel is a mercenary captain, by machiavelli's description. so what?:-p

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Originally by: shadyfox99

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Tbh, i was never aware that our objective was to take all three outposts. Where was that said? (Note: i am NOT saying your wrong, just that I didn't know this)

Why is it that everytime WE say something its "spin" but everything you say should be taken at 100% truth?

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Originally by: Lowa

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Chris, by reading the thread and the pm I'd say "no money would have made MC attack AAA on that night."
Nothing about the plan for taking more stations. Two different discussions I recon.


Cheers,
Lowa

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Originally by: Nez Perces

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Butter Dog, you actually won the thread now.... congratulations. And you still have a reputation ... of sorts

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Originally by: petergriffen

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You called out the alliance chairman in a public forum, what did you expect was to happen?

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Originally by: Lorth

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Originally by: Nez Perces

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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\o/

Told you I wasnt lying :p

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I'll admit that I underestimated you..

Anyways this seems like a happy ending.. I like happy endings.

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Yes he was though, about everything else regarding MC, save for the fact that we didn't want to engage AAA at that paticular moment, which we happily admited several dozen pages ago.

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Originally by: Ryunoko

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But the only thing you've really won is your 'reputation' and the fact, that no one will ever trust you again and share any more or less confidential or interesting information, as you don't hesitate to go public with it and embarass, expose and whatnot the people that trust you (and may even call you a friend, i don't know your (former) relation to Count), just "to win a thread".

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Originally by: Ice Ghost

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Edited by: Ice Ghost on 30/12/2006 23:39:22

Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: Ryunoko

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But the only thing you've really won is your 'reputation' and the fact, that no one will ever trust you again and share any more or less confidential or interesting information, as you don't hesitate to go public with it and embarass, expose and whatnot the people that trust you (and may even call you a friend, i don't know your (former) relation to Count), just "to win a thread".

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Er, excuse me, but I didnt bring Count into this until he posted lies about me in an attmept to discredit me.

I have been nothing but honourable. I was a Director in ISSN, I had access to valuable accounts, I pulled my roles and I left honourably - consider what I could have done.

I'm not that kind of person.

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just to win a thread you decided to destroy the aliance and people who DID trust you...

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Originally by: Der Pfaffe

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Well I mangaged to get to the end of the thread...

In my honest opinion Butter, the only thing you have proven is that Count sent you a PM.

In the PM, Count complains about the fact that MC wouldn't attack AAA for love nor money. His quite harsh words are probably said in a moment of frustration because he couldn't get MC to do what he wanted. Possibly he wrote to you looking for support of some form or another. He obviously thought you were trustworthy.

What is certain that nobody in their right minds will be PM'ing you in the future with any kind of sensitive information, or looking for perhaps somebody to sound off on. You've lost credibility on that front. To put it bluntly, what I mean is that you cannot be trusted.

All the rest is based on hearsay "chummy told me that...." and a lot of accusations for which you have yet to produce any supporting evidence.

Your "reasoning", no doubt skewed by the tantrum you are throwing because you were asked to stop posting, is based on repeating the same unsupported "facts" over and over again, in the same way that people can convince themselves that their lies are actually the truth.

Way back in these 20 odd pages someone gave you some good advice when he suggested that you step back from the forums. It's a shame you didn't take it.

Good luck with finding another Corp.

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Originally by: Dari Vire

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1) wtf are porkies.

2) how is counts pm at all a lie? so he was disappointed about one particular aspect.

3) how is that sensitive information?

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Originally by: Lorth

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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I've provided all the evidence required to back up what I have said, anything else is opinion and conjecture. You can go in a flame merry-go-round all you like, it won't get anywhere.

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You've ignored every request I've had to provide evidence for your several slanderous claims against MC, as well as clarification about instances where you've told several versions of the same story in this very thread.

So back up something else, since I still have questions.

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Originally by: petergriffen

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You had no credibility to begin with, you're nothing but a traitor to your former alliance. I'm glad you got kicked out.

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Originally by: petergriffen

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That's because you got podded too fast to get back out again :p

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Originally by: Hakk Allardson

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I have to agree with the sentiment that you may have won the thread but you lost your reputation in doing so. I don't think it really matters if you resigned yourself or would have been kicked out of the ISSN. The fact remains with your continued posting you knew yourself you wouldn't be able to remain in the Navy so it appears you have gone out with a huge bang.

Who cares if you win or loose a thread anyway. After all these forums really don't mean anything and it's your way of having fun, so you claim.

Have a good life dude.

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Originally by: Kyguard

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Count hasn't lost his rep. It takes more than a comment made out of frustration to destroy that man's reputation. Same as Seleene.

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Originally by: Robbie Boozecruise

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Originally by: Tomas Ysidro

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I was under the impression that the contract was to take F4R, with option to extend.

Anyways, posting in a thread that truely delivers.

(hi mom)

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hi tomas

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Originally by: Lorth

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Originally by: Lorth

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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I've provided all the evidence required to back up what I have said, anything else is opinion and conjecture. You can go in a flame merry-go-round all you like, it won't get anywhere.

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You've ignored every request I've had to provide evidence for your several slanderous claims against MC, as well as clarification about instances where you've told several versions of the same story in this very thread.

So back up something else, since I still have questions.

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I dont give a flying toss about your 'questions' which you seem to think are so important.

I mean, honestly... they are so ridiculously petty 'you lied about being in empire' etc (when in fact I WAS in empire all evening, only clone jumping to ZX for a minute, never heard of figures of speech?)

Get over yourself.

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Lets ignore the 'petty' stuff as you so called it then.

1: What version of the contract details are you now sticking with. You've given two differant versions in this very thread, which one are you now saying to be the correct one, and why did you offer two differant explainations in the first place.

2: Exactly what evidence do you have the MC had no client for the last IAC contract? Other then a convo with a person you now call a liar. Are you prepared to retract that statment? Or are you sticking with it?

These are not petty stuff, no matter how many times you choose to not answer them. They speak to your own credabilty during this forum campain you've had. Your flip flopping every couple minutes to suit what ever story you choose to tell on that paticular page.

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Originally by: Algey

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You are determined to manufacture a problem aren't you.

Any FC who wanted to take on that group without the proper intel isn't one I'd let command an operation like that.

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Originally by: Lorth

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Edited by: Lorth on 31/12/2006 01:37:33

Originally by: Butter Dog

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1) Tbh, I really don't know what you are talking about. You were contracted to take all three stations. Serenity Steele was late wiring over payment for the other two, but you stated you would have 'refunded the money anyway' with AAA in the picture. Anyway, you failed to take all three stations, and that co-incided with the arrival of AAA. Do you forget that I was part of the dread gang that was getting ready to jump into JB before you called everything off in a blind AAA induced panic?

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here you go

Quote:

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They (the mercs) were there to take F4, and they will be there again if required.

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You also implied on page 2, and again on page 3 that we were contracted to take F4. Seleene, and Count say basically the same thing, with an option to extend.

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Originally by: Xander Magnus

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Originally by: Butter Dog

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Clueless ftl...
...
Do you understand now? Or do you need me to talk a little slower?

Honestly, its like teaching in a special school.

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I just have to say this: you keep telling how everyone is personally attacking you while you are only trying to have a mature discussion. They make it personal, you are all reasonable, what is this then?

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